We are Bitcoin - Andrej P. Škraba

I interviewed Andrej, co-founder of the education portal Astra.si. A person who understands mathematics very well and at the same time helps the rest of us to understand it. I asked him about Bitcoin, AI, economic schools, the educational portal and the steps needed to improve the level of monetary literacy of Slovenians.

You are a bitcoiner. What does this term mean to you?

Andrej: For me, this term means that you understand bitcoin on several levels: technological, cryptographic, economic, sociological, philosophical and political. I think bitcoin is the most interesting and important thing in the world since the invention of the internet.

When did you first encounter Bitcoin and who introduced it to you?

Andrej: I was first introduced to bitcoin in the spring of 2010 by a colleague who was mining bitcoin on his laptop at the time.

You're an economist and maths is close to your heart. During primary school, secondary school and later studies, Slovenians arm themselves with sufficient mathematical and economic knowledge, yet it turns out that we don't understand the basics of economics - money. I always had a feeling that something was not "right" with the existing system, but I could not decipher what it was. Why do you think that is? Do you have similar experiences?

Andrej: I believe that society has three foundations that are crucial for its functioning. The first foundation is the legal system, or the rules of the game and how society works. Without some basic laws of how society works, civilised life is not possible. The second foundation is the school system. This regulates the transfer of knowledge and information to the generations that succeed them in the world and in society. The third foundation is the health system, which should provide health services to society and raise people's awareness of the importance of health. For only healthy, educated and moral people can create a prosperous society. Because these 'foundations' are not working optimally in Western countries and societies, we have sick, stupid and corrupt people. Of course, this is a very simplistic description and money plays a key role as a connective tissue between all human interactions. I believe that economics is part of the legal system where we agree on how we will value and exchange value. If one group can control this part of the "game", then all the other "players" are in a deprivileged position and trapped in an inflationary spasm.

What do you think of the Austrian School of Economics? Has it been deliberately excluded from the existing curriculum?

Andrej: I came across the Austrian School of Economics while I was studying economics, mainly because of the GEP, the movement for economic pluralism at the EF. At that time, we were exploring many other ideas than just classical and Keynesian economics. Because of my own libertarian worldview, the Austrian school is close to my heart. But I am not a fan of religiously following ideas that have emerged in history. Every historical period has its own characteristics, and these change over time. That is why it is always necessary to look for a mixture of ideas. I do not know whether the Austrian school is being deliberately squeezed out, but it is a fact that politics prefere Keynesian principles, precisely because, in this kind of set-up, it gives them more power.

Bitcoin is mathematics. How do you explain that statement?

Andrej: The Bitcoin protocol uses mathematical functions and methods to validate transactions and maintain transaction histories, ensuring the accuracy, precision and security of the information stored in the blockchain. Without cryptographic methods based on mathematical concepts, the existence of Bitcoin would not be possible. Therefore, we can say that mathematics is at the core of Bitcoin.

You are the founder of the Astra.si educational portal. What does it offer, what do you want to achieve and who is it aimed at?

Andrej: Astra.si is a portal for all pupils, students and other knowledge seekers who want to refresh, deepen or learn new mathematics knowledge. It is a non-profit project, all explanations, more than 2.500 videos, are free!

You have recently expanded your offer with an AI instructor. What does this mean for the user?

Andrej: Astra AI is the most advanced AI instructor that utilises the power of artificial intelligence to teach maths. It is available to anyone who wants help with learning maths and is much cheaper than traditional tutoring - that is the main purpose and goal; to drastically reduce the cost of tutoring and to provide each person with a personal tutor. We have designed Astra AI so that the user experience is very similar to tutoring, and the answers are tailored to the level of knowledge.

How complicated was it to "train" the AI programme so that the quality of its results is satisfactory to you?

Andrej: Astra AI currently runs on the Azure Open AI API, so we can't drastically affect the quality of the results. It is a language model, so its accuracy is somewhere between 95-98%. By developing dedicated mathematical models and a combination of mathematical-linguistic models, we will be able to raise this to 100% in the future. For now, the solution is good enough to focus on growth and market education.

AI is a tool that humans can use to benefit the majority. But it can also be misused to work against the vast majority of people. How do you see AI and its further development?

Andrej: Just like any other technology that has an impact on people. The consequences can be both positive and negative. I will fight for the use of this technology in education because I think it can drastically improve learning processes and bring mathematics and other subjects closer to young people. The next decade will certainly be a turning point, because artificial intelligence will make a huge number of people redundant. I fear that this would lead to countries flirting even more with totalitarian ideas.

Can we already pay for our Astra.si subscription with bitcoin?

Andrej: Not yet, but you can support the project with bitcoin on this page.

Are you thinking about adding Bitcoin content to the portal?

Andrej: I have a dedicated Bitcoin section on the portal: https://astra.si/bitcoin/.

You've mastered marketing. What is the simplest way to introduce people to Bitcoin? What is missing or what do you think is too much in the current approaches?

Andrej: Good marketing always tells a good story and influences people's emotions and thinking. That's why you need to tell people a story.The story about money, economics, how their lives are affected by the fiat monetary system, etc. Most people still see bitcoin as a speculative investment and not as a tool for economic sovereignty and independence.

How do you think we could raise the level of general knowledge in Slovenia about the current monetary system that is not working for people and show them an alternative, Bitcoin?

Andrej: Through education, through events on the topic, through podcasts, through books, etc.

Are you otherwise active in the Bitcoin community?

Andrej: I try to attend meetings and participate in debates.

Why bitcoin? (In one sentence)

Andrej: Bitcoin is a unique and special way for people to store and exchange value.

You have one orange pill. Who in Slovenia would you give it to and why?

Andrej: Blaž Brodnjak, CEO of NLB. He is an extremely intelligent man, but he has not taken the time to study bitcoin and its properties. This is clearly evident from his public statements.Bitcoin books are finally available in Slovenian (bitcoin-knjiznica.si).

Which book would you give to the President of the country?

Andrej: Bitcoin standard.

Where can people find you?

Andrej: They can contact me via Twitter/X or LinkedIn.

Andrej, thank you for your time.If you need help with maths, don't forget to check out Andrej's web portal Astra.si, where you can find more than 2,500 free resources. You will also find Bitcoin content in podcast form, suitable for beginners and those who have already taken the initial step. As Andrej says, education is one of the foundations of a successful society. Take advantage of quality content.

We are Bitcoin – Toni Čepon

Guest: Toni Čepon

Who could be the person who has a multi-faceted insight into the Bitcoin world? Connects with other stakeholders around the world, including regulators, while having direct contact with people who want to learn about Bitcoin? All of the above, and probably more, applies to the President of the Bitcoin Association Slovenia, Toni Čepon, who shared his experience with Bitcoin, running the Association and working with government authorities.

You're a bitcoiner. What does this term mean to you?

Toni: Bitcoiner is not just a term for an individual, it is a way of life. I try to encourage everyone who shows an interest to think about the good and bad money, and then let them find a better alternative than the one we mostly use today. If you direct them in the right way, the answer will present itself. Of course, a bitcoiner is not just one who spreads knowledge and talk about it, but also lives it.

When did you first encounter Bitcoin and who introduced it to you?

Toni: I read and thought about bitcoin relatively early on. I was also mining for a few weeks, but everything I mined at that time was gone quickly. Then I forgot all about it for a few years and started exploring the orange rabbit hole again at the end of 2015 or 2016, and with every book, article I read, I was drawn in more and more. But it's true that it's been a very slow learning curve, because it's been hard to forget everything I've learnt and been taught throughout my life. But while I was discovering and researching bitcoin on my own, sometimes I might have misinterpreted or misunderstood some things. That is why, even when I first came into contact with it, I asked myself some interesting questions and answered them completely wrong. The picture started to come together much more quickly at the end of 2017, when I joined the Bitcoin Society of Slovenia, started to actively participate and meet interesting individuals with whom we discovered bitcoin together.

The vast majority of people do not distinguish Bitcoin from crypto. Was it the same for you? Why do you think this is happening?

Toni: There is blockchain technology, which is a great technology, and it solves the biggest problem that exists, which is the problem of good money. Bitcoin is good money and nobody can deny that. Of course, we can also use this technology to solve another problem. I do not see that as a problem, but it can never, ever be money again. It can only be a tool to solve a problem that supposedly exists. The problem is that most 'alt-projects' present themselves as some kind of alternative to existing money, even an alternative to bitcoin. Yet they are not. If crypto projects would have their social networks, websites, advertising etc... shut down, they would lose their "hype" and I am sure that in no time at all their value would start to drop to zero... When bitcoin starts to turn the trend, the whole market follows, even though alt coins are no longer directly linked to bitcoin. But most people who believe in bitcoin today, in their beginnings, were concerned with only how to increase their FIAT wealth, and the marketing of alt coins or cryptos was always stronger than bitcoin's... I didn't start with alternatives myself, but in my "second try" I looked for opportunities elsewhere and often got burned... Of course I still follow projects that look interesting and maybe solve a problem, but you have to distinguish between the project and the coin they are using. I am actually interested in the people, the development and the technology, not in some token, the price or the hype that drives it. In the end, it is up to each individual to decide what they want to do. I never try to convince anyone. As I said before, I try to encourage everyone to just think, and in the end the vast majority of people get what is right and what is wrong. I have always been wary of people who try to persuade you of something and I stick to that principle:"What you learn and understand yourself is worth the most."

You are the President of the Bitcoin Society of Slovenia. When did you start your term of and how did you decide to apply for this position?

Toni: In 2021, at the time of COVID-19, I found myself, by some chance, in the situation of running for President. The Society had quite a few members, but when it came down to doing something, there were only a few of us. When the general meeting was announced, the idea was on the table that if there was no candidate, we would simply close the Society. I absolutely did not agree with this and in the last days before the general meeting I volunteered myself as a candidate for the presidency.

What is the purpose of the Bitcoin Society of Slovenia? What are your goals?

Toni: We do a lot of things in the Society. Of course, it's all connected to finances, and of course it also depends on the individuals who are involved in the Society and who help to build the community. If it were up to me I would probably have given up a long time ago, but we are lucky to have quite a few members who help with organising events, training, translating books, articles and I could go on and on. For example, in 2023 we organised or helped to organise 17 meetups around the country, with the help of NiceHash, GoCrypto/NAKA, Bitstamp and others. We organised a Bitcoin pizza day with the biggest 3m pizza, we helped with translations and sales of translated books, we delivered books to libraries to reach readers as soon as possible, we organised a visit to two bitcoin conferences and we could go on and on... Of course, as I wrote, this is the result of the work of all of us and the whole association. We are also working with the Blockchain Alliance Europe and the Blockchain think tank, with whom we are working together to engage with law writers. There has been a lot of work done here in the past and there is still a lot of work to be done, because it is only together that we can achieve something and prevent regulation from running us over.

What is the level of knowledge of the writers of the Bitcoin regulation?

Toni: That's quite a complex question and even more difficult to answer. There are individuals who are interested in technology and bitcoin and have expressed an interest in helping to solve this Gordian knot of regulation. There is also a lot of knowledge in Slovenia in general. Yet there is always someone or some group that does not understand, does not want to understand or is not allowed to understand. So here we come to the problem where we are always going in circles and talking about what is right, what is wrong and what should not be allowed. Something that is good for the people is always questionable for the writers of laws or regulations. Bitcoin is interesting because, once again, it brings human sovereignty to the very centre of attention, and that is what states, together with regulators, have been fighting against for years, trying to control it. This whole story is new to them, and in the absence of information, they cannot and must not put the whole picture together. Our job is to try to raise their level of knowledge and thinking to a satisfactory

level. It is interesting that some people listen, understand, learn and know that bitcoin is not a bad thing, and some people do not want to accept this fact.

What does Toni do as President? I guess leadership is just one of the functions.

Toni: My job is mainly of a networking nature, fundraising, finding new connections and contacts and organising the association. I've never been a man to order or in any way dictate... I prefer to do it myself rather than to force someone and ask many times. Maybe sometimes it is a disadvantage, but for now it works perfectly. Let's say I am an equal among all and I am also the President, because somebody has to be. There is a consensus for everything we do. Our association works like a bitcoin network. 51% and things are very simple. My vote counts exactly the same as any member's vote. Of course, everyone in the society has complete freedom and can carry out their idea with our help, but only as long as it is in the direction of bitcoin and not against the agreement of the society.

Surveys say that Slovenians are showing a lot of interest in cryptocurrencies. In your experience, do you think they also understand the problems they solve and how they work, or do they just see them as a lottery ticket and a way to make a quick buck?

Toni: My opinion is that Slovenia has one big advantage. We Slovenians got Bitstamp, NiceHash and companies like that quite quickly. With that, we started talking about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, researching them, some individuals got rich and that pulled the adoption cart forward. Of course, the main driver was to get rich and increase fiat wealth through cryptocurrencies, not to find solutions on how Bitcoin can help us. But it is a fact that with all the ICO projects that we had in Slovenia and that today exist only on paper, the vast majority started reading and researching what Bitcoin is and started to move away, or rather, started to approach "crypto" with more caution. Once they get there, they also start to understand where the problems are and how Bitcoin could help them. Up until that point, however, the main motivation is always how to make as much as possible from nothing and with minimal risk. In the end, the picture is usually completely reversed. They make zero out of a lot of money, with a lot of risk...(laugh)Of course, I don't speak for everyone, but I believe that is the case for the vast majority.

You are probably approached by many people asking for your opinion and help. What is common to all of them?

Toni: Most of the time, people come to me when it is already too late. A lot of the questions are not even related to Bitcoin, but to various pyramid schemes, MLM schemes, scams or failed projects/coins. Of course, I am happy to help everyone to the best of my ability, but in the vast majority of cases it is too late. If they had contacted me or our society earlier, I would have explained to them, or our members would have explained to them, where all the pitfalls of crypto are and how the only or the biggest risk with Bitcoin is patience and taking care of one's own security of one's bitcoins.

Are you organising any educational events where people can learn about Bitcoin and meet other Bitcoiners?

Toni: Luckily, a few years ago, at one of the first, if not the first, Ljubljana meetup, I met Aljaž Čeru and Peter Opara, who started organising Bitcoin Ljubljana meetups. At first it was a small group, but later we found a bigger space and now for more than two years we have been regularly organising monthly meetups, where we always work on some interesting topic. Sometimes the topics are more technical and challenging, and sometimes they are aimed at complete beginners who are just entering the world of bitcoin. As I am always looking for ways to introduce bitcoin to a wider audience, a little over a year ago we started working with NiceHash and together with our member Danilo we started the Bitcoin Maribor group. So far, we have organised a few meetups in Maribor as well. Now we are also looking for individuals in other Slovenian cities to organise the same events. This is the only way to reach a larger crowd. As all these events are free of charge and our association is completely non-profit, but I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members for their contribution to the functioning of our society. While our members contribute their time and energy to make events and things happen, a big thank you also goes to companies like NiceHash, GoCrypto, Bitstamp, WisdomCrypto, Iconomi,... that provide us with the funds to cover the costs of organising all these events. We are planning more events in 2024, including a party, and the first Bitcoin conference should finally happen in Slovenia towards the end of the year. The place and time will remain a secret for now....

The vast majority of people still don't understand, don't see why they need Bitcoin. Do you have any idea how to wake them up before it's too late?

Toni: People will recognise all the features of bitcoin when they need them. As long as everybody, or at least most of them, are only looking for projects, coins that would make a millionaire out of an average person, then bitcoin is less interesting for them every day. But when they become aware of all the problems that exist in the world because of FIAT currencies and start looking for solutions to these problems, then they will quickly discover the rabbit hole and visit it. We are trying to explain where all the problems are, and why bitcoin is the solution. In the end, it is up to each individual to decide whether to accept these facts or to continue to turn a blind eye and wait for their first 1 million EUR, which, with the money printing frenzy, could be very soon. Our "wake-up call" are meetups, events, books, articles. Whether this will be enough to wake them up, we will see in the coming months or years.

Are you in any other way active in the Bitcoin community?

Toni: I'm very involved with non-profit and educational organisations around the world, I'm actively involved with the Europeanbitcoiners group and we also write articles for the portal, we work with the Mi Primer Bitcoin El Salvador team, we're actively helping Martin and Matyas Kuchar with the BTC Prague conference, we're also involved with AmityAge, which organises trainings in Honduras and around the world,... and I could go on and on. In addition to all this, together with a few individuals, we have set up a bitcoin-shop.si, where anyone can buy a hardware wallet and bitcoin-related products. This was lacking in Slovenia and the only logical step was to set up a trusted site where a beginner can get all the information, products and "tools" to store bitcoin. Of course, I must not forget to mention the bitcoin library, with which we have more than excellent cooperation, we translate and add books with bitcoin topics to the bookshelves.

Why bitcoin? (In one sentence)

Toni: Money and individual sovereignty is at an all-time low, and since there is no better solution at the moment, we are left with Bitcoin.

You have one orange pill. Who in Slovenia would you give it to and why?

Toni: To no one. Everyone has to come to their own realisation and find their own orange pill. Everything that is handed to you in life is worth much less than if you achieve it on your own. That's why I do my best to show where and what the "orange pill" is, and then it's up to each individual to figure out how to help themselves with it. Once these individuals put the whole picture together, they are the best ambassadors for Bitcoin. Proof-of-work is the only thing that counts and the only thing that delivers results. Both in life and in the operation of Bitcoin. We cannot change the laws of nature.

Where can people find you?

Toni: Everywhere.... (laughs) Telegram, Twitter (@ToniCepon), Facebook, nostr, bitcoin.si/toni, live at most bitcoin meetups, and in the summer by the sea...

Toni, thank you for your comprehensive and interesting answers, which might help someone to take the first step in getting to know Bitcoin.

If you would like to learn more about Bitcoin and the people it connects, then visit the Bitcoin Society Slovenia website or sign up for one of the Bitcoin meetups around Slovenia. They'll be happy to help you understand the basics, and you might just bump into Toni there. The larger the community, the stronger we are.

We are Bitcoin - Boris Filipovac

Guest: Boris Filipovac

The availability of literature in Slovenian language will help people to learn more about the world of Bitcoin. For many years, the content was available almost exclusively in English, which discouraged many people from engaging with the inherently complex subject of money. Fortunately, we have individuals who have decided to bring Bitcoin literature closer to the Slovenian audience. Boris, the founder of the Bitcoin Library, is one of them.

You are a bitcoiner. What does this term mean to you?

Boris: Yes, definitely. It's hard not to be a bitcoiner once you learn what Bitcoin really is. Bitcoin for me is a change from bad to good. All the things in our lives are very much connected, and if you change one thing, it changes another, etc., Bitcoin brings a key change for our society, which in turn will bring changes for the better in many areas.

Why did you start exploring Bitcoin in the first place and what was the moment that made it click in your head?

Boris: I had heard of Bitcoin in its early days, but only from people who presented it as a pyramid scheme. Without checking the facts, I believed them and started going around saying it was a scam. Even when someone tried to explain it to me again, I could not or perhaps did not even want to understand. Until the price hike came along again, which caught my attention to such an extent that I really began to wonder why this was happening, how it was even possible. I read the book Inventing Bitcoin by Yan Pritzker, and the Bitcoin standard by Saifedean Ammous. And that's how it all started to fit together into a bigger picture. Bitcoiners like to help people who are willing to listen and hear. How are you ready to help them?Boris: I always take the time to explain in detail when anyone asks me a question about Bitcoin. I share information openly, because that is what bitcoin promotes. 

People are different, so the content usually has to be tailored to the audience. What experience do you have with this? 

Boris: It's true, I could write a book about the diversity of people and the different conversations I've had about Bitcoin. Everyone has their own views and stands firmly behind them. The challenge is to recognise that and to present bitcoin from their point of view. This is often difficult because people are (initially) closed and even openly against it. But bitcoin is good for all of us and that is something I like a lot about bitcoin. I am also learning about Bitcoin from different sources, and in doing so I am learning about different perspectives that help me to identify and answer a wide range of questions about Bitcoin.

You are the founder of the Bitcoin Library. Please tell us more about the project and the purpose.

Boris: The biggest lesson I have learnt on my Bitcoin journey is that I got a lot of wrong information, spent a lot of time and made a lot of wrong decisions before I got the right picture. I created the Bitcoin library with the intention that people can have access to the right information immediately. Since I believe that information is understood even more when it is given in the native language, I decided to create a collection of the most read books from the Bitcoin world in Slovenian.

How many books have you managed to translate so far?

Boris: We currently have three books in the collection, two of which have been translated and published through the Bitcoin Library.

Titles:

• Fiat standard

• Bitcoin standard

• Bikovska napoved za bitcoin

How long does it take you to translate a book, including printing?

Boris: From the contact with the author about the licence to the final printed version, it took us about half a year for each. It's worth pointing out, however, that the Bitcoin library is run by just a few individuals, all of whom run it in their spare time on top of their regular jobs. 

What are your goals?

Boris: The Bitcoin Library aims to provide a one-stop shop for anyone who wants to find the best answers to all their Bitcoin-related questions. In addition to literature, we would like to add workshops and trainings where individuals could learn how to use this technology with our help. We have already successfully carried out one such project, when we presented the economic and technical aspects of Bitcoin in theory to the students of the High School of Economics in Ljubljana, Roška. We are planning a practical workshop on how to use Bitcoin with them at the beginning of next year.

Are you self-funded or what does it look like to carry out a project of this kind?

Boris: All our projects are self-funded at the moment. But it's definitely worth mentioning that the Bitcoin Association Slovenia and its members have helped us in many steps, for which we are extremely grateful.

What difficulties have you encountered during the project? 

Boris: The hardest part is finding translators and proofreaders who are at least familiar with economic and financial terms, if not with the Bitcoin world. Many of the terms also had to be reinvented, which is still a challenge today. Once book has been translated and proofreaded, it has to be graphically edited and prepared for print, which means that it has to be carefully revised again afterwards. Nevertheless, we learned from the first translation that even then our work is not over. We sent the carefully proofread texts to the printers, but they had a printing bug which replaced all the 'š' with 'ž' on the cover. Fortunately, this was only on the front cover and the damage was not too big.

Are you active in the Bitcoin community in any other way? 

Boris: Yes, I try to attend the Bitcoin Association Slovenia events as regularly as possible. There is a lot of us there, helping each other and spreading knowledge about Bitcoin through different projects.

In my experience, the financial literacy of Slovenians is poor. The scary thing is that when you present them the facts, at least 90% of people refuse to accept it. They prefer to stick their heads in the sand and get on with their lives. "I haven't heard anything. There is no inflation. Taxes are not going up. Everything is fine and the state will take care of all my financial problems. Money grows on a tree." What is your experience in this area and how to wake up and help such people?

Boris: Given that every individual makes transactions on a daily basis, we are all participating in the economic system. At the same time, everyone would like to create financial independence and freedom as quickly as possible, but few people understand what money is and how it works. When I look around me, almost everyone invests the money they earn with the desire to increase their profits. The current system forces us to work more and more in order to maintain our 'status', but at the same time, to avoid this, we spend our free time reading the news and studying graphs on where to invest our money. And that is exhausting and wrong and just means that we have to earn our money twice in this system. If we would just look a little bit at the history of money and understand what the difference is between hard money and easy money, it would quickly become clear to us that perhaps we are reading and studying the wrong things in our spare time. People may be financially illiterate, but they are certainly not stupid. Understanding Bitcoin is something that will certainly help them become financially literate. Above all, it shows us that it is not some bogeyman that requires advanced knowledge of what is going on in the financial markets.

Why bitcoin? (In one sentence)

Boris: Because it is the most stable money in the history of mankind.

You have one orange pill. Who in Slovenia would you give it to and why?

Boris: It's hard to decide exactly who I would give it to, because I would like to give it to everyone.

Where can people find you?

Boris: www.bitcoin-knjiznica.si

X: https://twitter.com/btcknjiznica

NOSTR: btcknjiznica@nostr.si

There are no more excuses that the literature is only written in English. People like Boris and the Bitcoin Library project make it easier to access the knowledge and information, and bring you to the edge of the Bitcoin hole. But it is only up to you if you will jump in. Take the first step.